Crushing Survival Times for 3 star need re-evaluation.
With all the nerfs to weapons, all item chest costs, mysticals, and the stun on brutes, I believe that Survival Crushing times for 3 star rating should be re-evaluated to be sure that they are achievable. When these times were originally put into effect, it was with a different set of rules and standards than people are facing now. I realize that a lot of veteran players are able to still complete these stages, but they are a small vocal minority compared to your overall fan-base. Reward veterans, but don't punish the more casual players at the same time.
Just an added note, I already have the emblem for crushing so I'm speaking as a player with nothing really to gain from the crushing times being adjusted.
I miss the level 10 in three stars and openly I take no pleasure of game to be tried to collect it. Everything boost is removed and today I am irritated by step to end, I hope that the next update will see the time very increased to make them. Actually, The bosses are too hard to kill, I can only hope for a glitch to arrive there .... Cordially, Alain.
I respect your opinion, but I see some flaws in your logic. Allow me not to answer to all of the topics you've raised, otherwise, I'd risk to write a post bigger than yours.
So you want to play with others (presumably random players), but you don't like others to use the exploits tactics? Then you should play with friends for the obvious reasons (better coordination, planning and such). However, don't blame random players for trying to use exploits (mikhom already explained why). In case if the strategy is working, you can play it out even with randoms. That's what I did for all stages except for stages 8 and 10.
The problem is not with the players here, the problem is with the balance (and microtransactions affecting it). As of this moment, stages 8 and 10 are simply imbalanced because of their bosses. Bosses are immune to any working strategies and have no weak spots that could efficiently be used. The only working strategy you described already: Harbringer sniper + one-time boosters to wear the bosses out. Why bother creating an intelligent AI for enemies, when you (meaning developer) can just nerf the weapons, making them bullet sponges? I don't see any reason behind nerfing weapons and mysticals other than monetizing the gameplay.
Unfortunately, I don't think this situation is going to change with future patches. I'm just curious if Naughty Dog will decide make it even worse.
For the whole amount of comments and votes in this thread, not a single bit of acknowledgement from Naughty Dog. I consider their silence as a sigh that all is good and dandy. Or they don't care to clarify their stance on this matter. Either way, I don't feel I'd like to support the developer with such behavior.
P.S. And yes, another badge is a brilliant idea, indeed, comparing the difficulty then and now. But we won't get even that.
I totally agree with you, bro :)
My last note concerning this topic:
I sincerely hope that the upcoming patch 1.24.0XX fixes the indicated Survival Mode problems and that we all can relax then :]
Just a polite question?
Have you ever thought that those gamers hanging from cliffs have previously tried exactly what you are trying to do and have come to the frustrating conclusion that this path is not working?
Of course, they also fail on the cliffs - but now they are already so desperate and frustrated that they can not take the normal way any more, because every serious wish has failed "a thousand times"! ^^
I am convinced that the normal way can work but there are several prerequisites that only a few players have -
- the weapon/equipment boosters (which must be purchased in part)
- additional booster (which must be purchased)
- a team of three friends who interact with each other know what they are doing (VERY IMPORTANT!)
- 3 players they have do know what tactics they want to take
- and even then these three friends have to match additional boosters (ashes from the phoenix, more
favorable healing, more favorable heavy weapons).
But this is not usually in this game, especially If you are a soloplayer and have to hope for random good teammates. It usually fails at the beginning, when one goes somewhere else other than the other two and the wave modification changed - the stage is lost in principle in the first seconds.
And that is what happens, very much, very often – unbelieveable i often thinking.....
You have to be glad already if all three agree and know a good point where, all three togehter at the beginning time stand.
But because this is not the case, there is a coming and going in these stages without any prospect of success. And this destroys this game earlier oder later.
If, in fact, 3 good players meet at random and reach the Warlord by the end of the stage, the boosters are missing. Not everyone have them - and no - I'm not of the opinion that you have to pay for a game you have bought (in addition to a lot of the tripple pack) for individual equipment boosters in order to be able to be successful against a warlord at all! "Here i contradict decidedly!"
And sorry, I've even experienced with really good players (after hundreds of tries, perhaps 3-4 times) how close you were before to make the Warlord go K.O., and then he teleported during 1 or 2 players has been hurt and the last oft the team try revive them (to a location that has been hitherto safe for a few seconds without an enemy), and as mentioned, the warlord appears from one second to the next and THE WHOLE TEAM is dead with a finger strike from the warlord in THIS FUCKING ONE SECOND!
This is not fair, it is not a challenge, it is not funny, it has nothing to do with the talent or quality of the players, who have held up well until then, this is just arbitrariness and injustice. And if you experience this for months or over half a year and nothing works – please don`t wonder and ND dont wonder why players dont trust a normal path!
and finally; since the game was already hard enough to start, players could reach the targets with hard fighting without trying getting caught by the cliffs - even solos with random teammates, without buying boosters. At this tme also worked indra still, as it should work! And players have achieved the badges on this account, legally and earned.
Because of the fact that mystic abilities do not work any more, the difficulty has suddenly been increased to the immeasurable from the beginning, weapons upgrades (even though they are level 5) with the patches in the past - it has simply become unfair, in particular in the comparison to those players which has ND allowed to reache the badges to the hard and fair conditions at beginning.
Players who made the 30 stars on crushing wrote me in the first weeks after publishing, crushing is unspeakable hard and you pull out all hair from the head until you do it - although at that time in comparison to today a lot of hard but much fairer appears!
Then ND have to introduce new badges, for all those who are now able to do it after hundreds of attempts - in this stony, unfair and almost impossible way! So far there was no insight.
Finally all in all: No, no one will criticize ND or the game if it had only been fair. But it is not.
And the several hundred reviews speak for themselves that this is not a feature that affects only tp one or the other gamer. It is a problem that the game was made unfair by patch to the next patch and takes away every joy if you realize how unjustly it is programmed currently.
The reviews are therefore quite appropriate.
To CsermelyD but also my general opinion on this...
I truly respect your opinion, bro :) We all are here to tell ND our thoughts and ideas about how to improve or what to change. I just want to comment on a few things you mentioned. I have spent 300 hours in Survival so far and I still play it because I like it. I am also missing a few stars on crushing. Before patch 1.20 I rarely saw players using tactics like hanging on the cliffs et cetera but after it the amount of players trying to "cheat" increased drastically. I'm not the type of player trying to find the fastest or easiest way. I do take the normal hard way and fight the bosses how it was meant to be (like you do as well ^_^)
I don't use any DLC stuff which makes it harder to complete all stages in time. For example: I wish I had a level 5 P90 which is very useful and actually the best in close combat situations but I don't have it. I don't want to spend a single cent on additional stuff for Uncharted 4. That's just my attitude concerning DLC / microtrans policy in general. It's just a bit sad in my opinion that I have to play hundreds of hours to unlock weapons that make it like 10% easier to kill a boss or whatever. We all just want Naughty Dog to rethink Survival and if they come to the conclusion that it is perfect how it is then I will accept that.
We don't intend to insult ND or whatever.
I have played many hard games in my life and maybe I am allowed to say that I am not the worst player (No.1 worldwide in several PS3 / PS4 games) but I have a strong feeling that I am treated unfairly when playing Survival (on higher difficulties).
Thanks for reading, ND. And I hope you have a good day, CsermelyD :)
So I've read through all of these comments about ND making this difficulty impossible and since I'm struggling with specific waves of Survival as well, I completely understand everyone's anger and frustration, but honestly, part of me also understands why ND patched out some earlier methods.
Lately, I've been playing this game quite often and now I've come to a point when I have to take on the last 5 stages on Crushing, including the two bosses with the machine gun, which I'm sure everyone is sick of already. But every time I join or start a match, I see people hanging on the cliffs or on the side of the boat in Pirate Colony, trying to get it done cheap, while I'm the only one actually making an effort and searching for a solution and this goes on since weeks now... I cannot even get a chance to try to take down the Warlords legit, because as soon as the previous wave ends, people start running to their spot hanging. 90% of the time it's not even working, because sooner or later they fall and die (and of course I'm the one who needs to spend the cash on revives), but even if it does, how is that satisfying to kill the warlord this way? What I'm trying to say: how can we expect the developers to be fair when most players' first thought is how to get a cheap kill? I understand if these are acts of desperation and that my example is triggered by nerfed weapons and stuff, but even before the 1.20 patch people tried several glitches to easily get the 3 stars! Also, I understand that using Indra on bosses cannot be considered as a bug, but no one in their right mind could thought that the Warlords was supposed to be defeated in seconds. They're bosses for a reason and should provide the ultimate challenge.
All my respect and appreciation goes to those people who still try to actually earn their stars. Like I said, I myself struggling like everyone else and I'm not saying this because I already have the Crushing or Hardcore badges, because I don't, so I do care about how difficult it is or how it supposed to be done. But this cannot be the way to achieve the results and I don't consider it impossible at all. Harbinger Sniper with the heavy weapon expert booster do just fine against the Pirate Colony boss, and yes, I know these are both DLC tools which leads to the matter of microtransactions, what I don't think is that much of a problem at all... If you're lucky, you get the desired items for the in-game currency, but even if it has to be bought, it won't cost more than a few bucks, which seems reasonable to me, considering that the whole survival & multiplayer feature was a free expansion.
I did not wish to hurt anyone by this opinion, all I'm saying is that being determined and persistent should "fix" the whole issue. Putting the blame on ND and hoping the difficulty to drop, won't.
Very much agreed, having been a fan of every Naughty Dog game ever released this is highly disappointing and needs to be reevaluated immediately, or I will be boycotting The Last of Us 2, and I'm sure other people will be too.
I agree completely. The time restrictions are to harsh on the casual players especially with trophies tied to the difficulty. Just completing some of the later stages is extremely frustrating, but add having to rush and play a specific play style to meet the time takes away any fun from the content.
I think the wisest answer to this bs ND is feeding us to not buy Last of us 2 and simply watch it on youtube , hell that is what ill be doing for sure .The way you treat your customers is just beyond words. Its like ruining multiplayer was not enough for you , you just had to destroy the one thing that was more or less enjoyable .
And as for whether or not they are even considering to change anything - ofc not . "What did you say guys ?
Matchmaking sux? Multiplayer full of bugs ? Survival is a joke now? Well that is all very interesting but take a look at this Mexican cap we are giving away this weekend !!!FOR FREEE!!!!! Sweet huh ?
What I find interesting about this feedback topic is all of the excellent comments and suggestions on ways to make Survival more fair to the player experience.
I also find it very understandable the level of frustration expressed here – because with the current difficulty level associated with getting the trophies Crushing and ...It – the game is extremely frustrating and repetitive.
Ultimately I think it boils down to the fact that level 5 guns are not strong enough and level 50 player buffs do not offer enough defensive protection, this is most obvious in Stages 8, 9 and 10.
Another extreme frustration I have with the game is the warlord from stage 8 has no weaknesses. None. Zero. Ziltch. It says in the loading screen hints that the key to beating the warlords is to exploit their weaknesses – well that’s fine if you are dealing with the warlords which actually go into a vulnerable state.
As a completionist, I will continue to try working/struggling towards these last two trophies. Until they’ve been achieved I will not be purchasing any new Naughty Dog games. Which really makes me sad to say.
Naughty Dog, here is how the coop game should be made. Use intelligent AI for all enemies but have them easy to kill if hit. The idea is to reward players for successfully hitting them instead of the over armored and over powerful super dumb AL enemies garbage that you crapped out to us. Trying to get survival store money from us while making every player lose and get frustrated and give up and stop playing the game and hate you for this garbage gaming that you forced upon us by making it trophy related is neither good for the players or even good for business. I can not even think of a worse way to screw over the players and show everybody that you can not make intelligent enemies so you hide that by making them over powered and over armored and put out too many of them per wave. I can see why the lady in charge of Uncharted 3 left you. You're a bunch of asholes.
I think the real problem here is micro transactions. Naughty dog is a buisness company and if they are making more money from selling survival items after the difficulty boost i doubt that they would revaluate the times or the difficutly on crushing no matter the complaints here.
One thing that bothers me is that i find it unfair that there are people with 3 stars on crushing badge while they got the badge before the nerfs and difficulty boosts. If you are making the game that much harder at least give a new badge so people that actually can manage that can show off. Also i wonder how many are out there that manage to get the trophy after the nerfs. Official database shows 0.1%, but that includes people that got the trophy before the nerfs and also cant go lower so probably it is like 1 every 5000 or evern 10000.
Well said Dharmavasita!
I am fully in your opinion, as I would like to add that the forum of the users here lives a lot, but by the ignorance of ND is practically dead. Why does it exist? No idea.
Real problems in the game of the users are hardly noticed, but optical improvements or outfit wishes are met anyway and actually there are hardly any answers. I am much in other forums by developers, but the ignorance, exasperation and unfriendliness here for a long time is unique.
I am disappointed and will also only buy more copies and second goods at a low price.
Survialpatches since 1.19 are the low point of the whole.
It's kind of funny that this topic has the highest number of votes for a long time now, with people giving their constructive thoughts and justifications, and yet not a single sign of acknowledgement from Naughty Dog regarding this problem. Almost every post here is asking them at least to give a response, and there's none. I won't bother asking what topic starter (and other posters in this thread) are asking, I support the idea. I'd simply like to express my dissapointment with how the developer handling this particular situation with Survival mode by totally ignoring the fanbase.
One might say that Multiplayer takes the priority, with Survival players being the minority, but what's the point of this mode then? To "enjoy" the co-op play, trying to improve your results up to 3 stars on Crushing difficulty or completing the Hardcore? With all the decisions made after 1.19 patch I wouldn't call the process "playing" anymore. It's just a tedious process of dying on stages 8/10 bosses or running from them and their spawns.
What's the goal here, Naughty Dog? To make players buy one-time boosters or weapons to ease the process? I would buy weapons, for example, if I knew this weapon could help me. But when people buy weapons/mysticals hoping it'll help to bring down the boss, developer just snaps fingers and makes their purchase useless. So I'm not paying anyways. Was the intention to make the Survival more competitive? Well, as of now only pro-players are able to 3-star all the stages on Crushing, that's true. Meaning I can't "play" with my friends, because all three of us now need to waste an enormous time and efforts to become pro-players too, right? Is it worth it? Nope. Because my time is precious, and the challenge you currently present to me is unreasonable. Because I'd better play another games instead of wasting time on 2 remaining stars on Crushing or begging you to re-evaluate the difficulty. Because if you'd wanted, you'd re-evaluate the times long time ago. You just don't want to for your own reasons.
P.S. I regret saying this, Naughty Dog, but you lost me as a buyer of your next games after this one (only used copies from now on). I was thinking about it after completing U3 multiplayer trophies, but I hoped you've improved your MP/coop policies since then. Guess I was dead wrong.
This is a fucking joke. At least give us the possibility to up level 100 (bonus hp, damage, 300%) and up the number of loadout to 10 and 40 LP
Please, Please, please!!!! like others have mentioned, please re-evaluate the difficulty on crushing, it's just soo unfair and punishing to the point that regardless with three people, it's not possible to attain a 3 star with overpowered enemies and in short time too. It's just too hard...please look into this...
Dear ND: It would be very nice if you could at least give us some feedback on whether you're working on the problem or not.
Thank you :)
There's not really a whole lot I can add that hasn't already been said, but I wanted to add my opinion anyway.
I'm a completionist by nature, so when this mode first came out, I had planned on eventually playing it. I did the first 10 Stages on Normal, and the first 2 on Hard, and took a break. I felt that a lot of the "challenge" came from bulletsponge enemies and encounters that were designed to be unfair by nature (especially the Warlords). I'm perfectly fine with a good challenge, as long as it's fair and not cheap. Any developer can reduce the respawn timers on adds, increase health of enemies, and reduce player health/damage to make ANY game ridiculously challenging, but that's no fun.
Now, after the HUGE nerf to players, and the continual exploit fixes/stealth nerfs and absolutely very little (if any) things to make 3 Starring Crushing a reasonable endeavor, I have absolutely 0 desire to give this mode another try.
I know a lot of players were unhappy with the amount of DLC MP Trophies you added to Uncharted 2/3, but I made the switch over to PlayStation after those games had come out, and ended up playing them on the PS4 as the Remastered versions. The Last of Us on PS3 had very tough to do legitimate DLC MP trophies, but when it was ported to PS4, the requirements on those trophies were made much more reasonable. Given that, and the relatively easy vanilla U4 MP trophies, I thought you guys had changed for the better, and I decided to dive into U4 at launch. Now, we have this Survival debacle, and while I am only one customer (and I understand the "too big to fail" mentality), I have no desire to purchase any of your future games just in case this happens again.
I just don't understand the thought process behind this. Why would you want to make something so unfairly difficult that it frustrates your playerbase? So they'll cave and spend money on microtransactions? That's not exactly the most encouraging behavior from an AAA developer. I'm not exactly a proponent of microtransactions at all, but I'd be much more likely to spend money on a game that's FUN to play.
Please consider the comments in this thread. Life is too short, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for this to be adjusted in a way that is not necessarily easy to 3-Star Crushing, but it should be fair. Thank you for your time.
Also.. If you want people to spend money on your game, don't make it so difficult that any money put into it is a waste because it's impossible to complete..
Yes, please, please, PLEASE reevaluate this mode. There's absolutely no joy to be had in it. Just frustration. And as an artist, I would like to think that's not how you want people to experience something you've put a lot of time and effort into creating.
The survival mode in U3 was a pain in the ass to earn all trophies in.. But it also felt relatively fair. This..? Not even in the slightest. This mode makes Souls-like games a walk in the park.